Saturday, November 16, 2013
Saturday, May 1, 2010
Olema Retreat - Spring 2010 - Discussion notes
Hello All,
I had surprised myself when I started taking down notes, which I have not done in any of the past retreats. I should thank the thoughtfulness of Swami Vedananda and other organizers for making three groups, where we could all open up and jot down a few questions, which otherwise might not have surfaced. The very first question sounded so relevant that I decided instinctively to write down all that I could. As I was giving the notes a framework, after about a week, most of the discussion is still fresh in my mind and thanks to all the retreat attendees for making the discussion session so lively and spiritually enriching. It looks like those 90-100 minutes will never be forgotten :)
(Please feel free to suggest any corrections and please point to any misunderstanding from my side. Also add the part of the discussion that I missed - I was not in the hall starting 11:45am, I remember)
Question and Answer session with Swami Prabuddhananda of Vedanta Society, San Francisco, CA at Olema, Marin County, CA April 17th Saturday
(I am merely a reporter here. However, I do not remember the entire discussion verbatim, but do remember the essence of discussion. So the questions and the answers are rephrased while I tried not to alter the meaning. If one finds a mistake, I am to be responsible for this and neither the retreat attendee who asked the question nor Swami Prabuddhananda are at fault)
Retreat Attendee (RA): Why are there joys and sorrows?
Swami Prabuddhananda: There are two sides to everything. Nothing is all bad or all good. This is to be known.
RA: But how can you say that when there is a Tsunami or for that matter an Earthquake. Aren't they all bad?
Swami Prabuddhananda: How can you say this is all bad? See how much aid had come from all over the world. There is love and help coming from all corners of the world. Suddenly, so many charity organizations have come out for help. Many started to think beyond themselves. You would be making spiritual progress, once you start thinking beyond yourself.
Also, how do you know that death is bad, for all those who have died? There might be someone out there who is suffering from a serious ailment and the pain of the suffering is so much more than death. For that one, this is good.
RA: What does karma Yoga call for? "Lose yourself in the work that you do or find a work in which you will lose yourself"
Swami Prabuddhananda: It calls for two things. One, lose yourself in the work that you do and two, detach yourself from the work that you do. You should be ever ready to offer it to God.
RA: If the work is scorching the soul, should the duty be done?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Through work it is the goal to attain freedom.
(My remarks: I do not remember the rest of the discussion on this question, but I understood that compared to this major goal of freedom, everything else that we face is puny and no work can be scorching. However, we have to exercise our discretion in choosing the work that is right for us. I think this is also partly answered in the question on Prioritizing duties where Swami talked about using discretion in prioritizing duties)
RA: What happens when we die?
Swami Prabuddhananda: We will all know! (Everyone in the hall laugh). Sri Ramakrishna says, like changing coats, so does the soul change bodies. Some say that the soul takes another body as soon as it leaves one and some say there is a delay in this happening. But the Truth....... (I do not remember Swami saying anything more, but I remember him looking skyward indicating that the divine knows)
RA: Doesn't the mind also change bodies in this process?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Of course yes! But, know that the mind is not the PhD from Stanford (Everyone in the hall laugh). It is the underlying character/personality that takes on a new form.
RA: What is spiritual progress? How can we measure it? What if we do not see any progress?
Swami Prabuddhananda:
(I did not see any note on what Swami said about spiritual progress. Probably I missed it. The rest had been written down though)
Spiritual progress is for everyone. We should all be doing all that is recommended in the scriptures. Continuously check if we are following the recommendations made. Sincerity is very important. One should play this role very well. And then Swami told the clock story which he brought up in the context of being mindful of the duty on our hands and not worry about any external agencies including time. The story as I remember is:
In a very big manufacturing firm, in one of the manufacturing shops it is written on a big clock - "watch the job, not the clock". Everyone laugh (of course Swami told the story very nicely, unlike my report here :))
Swami added, Swami Vivekananda gives strength/conviction as a criterion for measuring spiritual progress. You would feel stronger internally when you are spiritually progressing
How can one have the samadhi experience? (from Swami Vedananda)
Swami Prabuddhananda: Know that 'I' is already that Samadhi. It is this that is to be realized. The experience (or the realization - I did not understand which of these two or may be they are the same) might come through an agency. But, one has to prepare for this by reading and practicing yoga. (By Yoga, Swami meant single-minded effort to attain spiritual realization. This could be Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and meditation or a combination of all these)
RA: Why can't we have desires? Don’t they make us work harder?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Who said desires are wrong? (He smiles as he says that). There are helpful (for spiritual progress) and unhelpful desires and it is the slavery to these desires that is a problem
RA: Can't I chase all the desires and then at one point I am fulfilled and I will have no desires?
Swami Prabuddhananda: In this context, the Swami told the Story of King Yayati who wanted more time to fulfill all his worldly desires and hence takes on the body of his youngest son (Of course, he is the only son who accepts to give a youthful body to his father and in turn take the old body. The other sons reject the father's request). But in the end the King realizes that all the desires can never be fulfilled. Swami added after the story, "fire cannot be extinguished by adding more gasoline".
RA: If Truth/eternal knowledge is around us, then why is it tough to realize?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Ignorance masks the knowledge (as fog hides the Sun - I remember reading this analogy elsewhere). Factually, realizing that truth is very simple, but psychologically it is very far and difficult.
He then told the story of the cotton farmer. A cotton farmer got a very good harvest from his crop and he piled up all the cotton in one place. Due to a fire accident, all the cotton burned and when the farmer came to know about this, he got disturbed. He would always ask, "Did all the cotton get burnt?" He can never take this truth. The family had taken him to various psychiatrists, but there was no improvement. Finally, they take him to a psychiatrist who understands his problem and tells him that all the cotton was loaded onto a ship and when it sailed far into the ocean, it is small (appears so) and got burnt easily. The farmer realizes the truth as soon as its enormity is taken off. (I do not know if I got the last few sentences right in this story. Please correct if I had this wrong.) After this, I vaguely remember that he talked about the importance of a spiritual Guru in helping with spiritual progress
RA: How to prioritize duties?
Swami Prabuddhananda: For this you need practice. Take the example of nurses. A heart patient, who outwardly is well dressed and has no visible wound, is treated prior to a bleeding patient even if they come at the same time. A normal person who has no training cannot understand this. But the nurses know that the heart patient's treatment cannot be delayed, while a bleeding patient can be treated a little later than the heart patient and any more blood loss can be compensated by blood transfusion.
Similarly, it needs practice and right knowledge to prioritize duties. Meditation and constant practice will prepare one for prioritizing duties. Exercise continuously using the equipment (Swami points to the mind as he says equipment)
With this, I come to the end of the notes that I have taken down. I also take this opportunity to Thank Swami Vedananda, Swami Prabuddhananda and the Vedanta Society of San Francisco for having given us this wonderful opportunity.
Namaste,
Phani.
I had surprised myself when I started taking down notes, which I have not done in any of the past retreats. I should thank the thoughtfulness of Swami Vedananda and other organizers for making three groups, where we could all open up and jot down a few questions, which otherwise might not have surfaced. The very first question sounded so relevant that I decided instinctively to write down all that I could. As I was giving the notes a framework, after about a week, most of the discussion is still fresh in my mind and thanks to all the retreat attendees for making the discussion session so lively and spiritually enriching. It looks like those 90-100 minutes will never be forgotten :)
(Please feel free to suggest any corrections and please point to any misunderstanding from my side. Also add the part of the discussion that I missed - I was not in the hall starting 11:45am, I remember)
Question and Answer session with Swami Prabuddhananda of Vedanta Society, San Francisco, CA at Olema, Marin County, CA April 17th Saturday
(I am merely a reporter here. However, I do not remember the entire discussion verbatim, but do remember the essence of discussion. So the questions and the answers are rephrased while I tried not to alter the meaning. If one finds a mistake, I am to be responsible for this and neither the retreat attendee who asked the question nor Swami Prabuddhananda are at fault)
Retreat Attendee (RA): Why are there joys and sorrows?
Swami Prabuddhananda: There are two sides to everything. Nothing is all bad or all good. This is to be known.
RA: But how can you say that when there is a Tsunami or for that matter an Earthquake. Aren't they all bad?
Swami Prabuddhananda: How can you say this is all bad? See how much aid had come from all over the world. There is love and help coming from all corners of the world. Suddenly, so many charity organizations have come out for help. Many started to think beyond themselves. You would be making spiritual progress, once you start thinking beyond yourself.
Also, how do you know that death is bad, for all those who have died? There might be someone out there who is suffering from a serious ailment and the pain of the suffering is so much more than death. For that one, this is good.
RA: What does karma Yoga call for? "Lose yourself in the work that you do or find a work in which you will lose yourself"
Swami Prabuddhananda: It calls for two things. One, lose yourself in the work that you do and two, detach yourself from the work that you do. You should be ever ready to offer it to God.
RA: If the work is scorching the soul, should the duty be done?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Through work it is the goal to attain freedom.
(My remarks: I do not remember the rest of the discussion on this question, but I understood that compared to this major goal of freedom, everything else that we face is puny and no work can be scorching. However, we have to exercise our discretion in choosing the work that is right for us. I think this is also partly answered in the question on Prioritizing duties where Swami talked about using discretion in prioritizing duties)
RA: What happens when we die?
Swami Prabuddhananda: We will all know! (Everyone in the hall laugh). Sri Ramakrishna says, like changing coats, so does the soul change bodies. Some say that the soul takes another body as soon as it leaves one and some say there is a delay in this happening. But the Truth....... (I do not remember Swami saying anything more, but I remember him looking skyward indicating that the divine knows)
RA: Doesn't the mind also change bodies in this process?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Of course yes! But, know that the mind is not the PhD from Stanford (Everyone in the hall laugh). It is the underlying character/personality that takes on a new form.
RA: What is spiritual progress? How can we measure it? What if we do not see any progress?
Swami Prabuddhananda:
(I did not see any note on what Swami said about spiritual progress. Probably I missed it. The rest had been written down though)
Spiritual progress is for everyone. We should all be doing all that is recommended in the scriptures. Continuously check if we are following the recommendations made. Sincerity is very important. One should play this role very well. And then Swami told the clock story which he brought up in the context of being mindful of the duty on our hands and not worry about any external agencies including time. The story as I remember is:
In a very big manufacturing firm, in one of the manufacturing shops it is written on a big clock - "watch the job, not the clock". Everyone laugh (of course Swami told the story very nicely, unlike my report here :))
Swami added, Swami Vivekananda gives strength/conviction as a criterion for measuring spiritual progress. You would feel stronger internally when you are spiritually progressing
How can one have the samadhi experience? (from Swami Vedananda)
Swami Prabuddhananda: Know that 'I' is already that Samadhi. It is this that is to be realized. The experience (or the realization - I did not understand which of these two or may be they are the same) might come through an agency. But, one has to prepare for this by reading and practicing yoga. (By Yoga, Swami meant single-minded effort to attain spiritual realization. This could be Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and meditation or a combination of all these)
RA: Why can't we have desires? Don’t they make us work harder?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Who said desires are wrong? (He smiles as he says that). There are helpful (for spiritual progress) and unhelpful desires and it is the slavery to these desires that is a problem
RA: Can't I chase all the desires and then at one point I am fulfilled and I will have no desires?
Swami Prabuddhananda: In this context, the Swami told the Story of King Yayati who wanted more time to fulfill all his worldly desires and hence takes on the body of his youngest son (Of course, he is the only son who accepts to give a youthful body to his father and in turn take the old body. The other sons reject the father's request). But in the end the King realizes that all the desires can never be fulfilled. Swami added after the story, "fire cannot be extinguished by adding more gasoline".
RA: If Truth/eternal knowledge is around us, then why is it tough to realize?
Swami Prabuddhananda: Ignorance masks the knowledge (as fog hides the Sun - I remember reading this analogy elsewhere). Factually, realizing that truth is very simple, but psychologically it is very far and difficult.
He then told the story of the cotton farmer. A cotton farmer got a very good harvest from his crop and he piled up all the cotton in one place. Due to a fire accident, all the cotton burned and when the farmer came to know about this, he got disturbed. He would always ask, "Did all the cotton get burnt?" He can never take this truth. The family had taken him to various psychiatrists, but there was no improvement. Finally, they take him to a psychiatrist who understands his problem and tells him that all the cotton was loaded onto a ship and when it sailed far into the ocean, it is small (appears so) and got burnt easily. The farmer realizes the truth as soon as its enormity is taken off. (I do not know if I got the last few sentences right in this story. Please correct if I had this wrong.) After this, I vaguely remember that he talked about the importance of a spiritual Guru in helping with spiritual progress
RA: How to prioritize duties?
Swami Prabuddhananda: For this you need practice. Take the example of nurses. A heart patient, who outwardly is well dressed and has no visible wound, is treated prior to a bleeding patient even if they come at the same time. A normal person who has no training cannot understand this. But the nurses know that the heart patient's treatment cannot be delayed, while a bleeding patient can be treated a little later than the heart patient and any more blood loss can be compensated by blood transfusion.
Similarly, it needs practice and right knowledge to prioritize duties. Meditation and constant practice will prepare one for prioritizing duties. Exercise continuously using the equipment (Swami points to the mind as he says equipment)
With this, I come to the end of the notes that I have taken down. I also take this opportunity to Thank Swami Vedananda, Swami Prabuddhananda and the Vedanta Society of San Francisco for having given us this wonderful opportunity.
Namaste,
Phani.
Thursday, October 15, 2009
Krisna Das discussion
Dear All;
The KD documentary and discussion after was insightful. Krisna Das's melodious voice continues to waft through my mind.
I found the sharing about the American Bhakti from the 60's generation (my generation) poignant and ironic....Many in my generation, like KD, placed our hopes for enlightenment in the east, particularly India.
During the sharing I was reminded how people tend to appreciate the treasures of their native country after having left it. We take for granted and don't appreciate what was right in front of our nose.
When I was 12 years old I moved to Japan and then Thailand for a few years and developed a love of the East but also a deep appreciation for America. I wish that more American youths would go live in other parts of the world and remember what is good about this great, albeit imperfect country.
thanks for another fantastic retreat.
Sue Ann
The KD documentary and discussion after was insightful. Krisna Das's melodious voice continues to waft through my mind.
I found the sharing about the American Bhakti from the 60's generation (my generation) poignant and ironic....Many in my generation, like KD, placed our hopes for enlightenment in the east, particularly India.
During the sharing I was reminded how people tend to appreciate the treasures of their native country after having left it. We take for granted and don't appreciate what was right in front of our nose.
When I was 12 years old I moved to Japan and then Thailand for a few years and developed a love of the East but also a deep appreciation for America. I wish that more American youths would go live in other parts of the world and remember what is good about this great, albeit imperfect country.
thanks for another fantastic retreat.
Sue Ann
Why don't we hear these stories?
I wanted to share the following story with this group.
"In the Babemba tribe of South Africa, when a person acts irresponsibly or unjustly, he or she is placed in the center of the village, alone and unfettered. All work ceases, and every man, woman and child in the village gathers in a large circle around the accused individual. Then each person in the tribe speaks to the accused, one at a time, about all the good things the person in the center has done in his lifetime. Every incident, every experience that can be recalled with any detail and accuracy is recounted. All his positive attributes, good deeds, strengths and kindnesses are recited carefully and at length. The tribal ceremony often lasts several days. At the end, the tribal circle is broken, a joyous celebration takes place, and the person is symbolically and literally welcomed back into the tribe." - The Art of Forgiveness, Lovingkindness, and Peace By Jack Kornfield
We hear about the communities that throw stones at convicts. But, we never hear about the communities like Babemba tribe.
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
It's been a while since the Olema retreat but I thought I would still share some of my reflections on the retreat. Hope thinking about the retreat brings back some good memories for everyone. A belated thank you to all those who organized the retreat and also to those who uploaded photos.
Instinct, Intellect and Intuition:
I wanted to share some reflections after the discussion we had at the Olema retreat regarding intuition. I had asked Swami Prabhudananda a question during the discussion about what intuition is. He answered that buddhi (reasoning/intellect) has to do with rationality but intuition is something much greater and capable of giving real clarity and guidance.
I think we usually tend to operate in the realms of instinct (or impulse) and intellect (including the emotions). It is no wonder that we make so many mistakes and experience the consequences of those. I hope Swamiji's answer gives us food for thought and helps us step back from the hustle and bustle of everyday life. May we strive everyday to connect to and use the third "i" - intuition.
Best wishes,
Rashmi
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Reflections...
That was a highly satisfying weekend. I feel I am happier, learning and growing, especially in a spiritual standpoint. Thanks Swamijis and everyone for all your conscious, sub/unconscious contributions. Reminded me of one of the verses from Adi Shankara Bhagavat Pada's work, Baja Govindham which I would like to quote here:satsaNgatve nissNgatvaM
nissaNgatve nirmohatvam
nirmohatve nishchalatattvaM
nishcalatattve jiivanmuktiH
Interpretation:
From Satsangh comes non-attachment, from non-attachment comes freedom from delusion, which leads to self-settledness (steadfastness). From self-settledness (steadfastness) comes Jeevan Mukti (liberation in life). (http://www.karnatik.com/c1824.shtml)
Monday, April 20, 2009
in translation
And here, I offer a translation of the song Amritha and I sang, that she so kindly offered a link and lyrics to. (I am certainly not an expert, so do please feel free to suggest corrections.)
The name is unknown,
The place of worship is unknown,
Service, prayer are all unknown to me.
All I know is that
'I' am unknowable.
Without one, there is no other...
no other.
You are our hope, our faith
You are our earth, our sky, o Rama
You are our mother and father
You are our friend and brother
You are our day, our night, our dusk, our dawn,
In the lamp, the sun, the moon, and the stars, o Rama
You alone are our light, o Rama
As I breathe, you come and go
It is to you alone that I relate
In every autumn of this forest of life, o Rama
You alone are the month of honey, o Rama
You are in all, all is in you
You are existence itself, and you are the giver of all
You are the tears in our eyes, o Rama
You are the smile on our lips, o Rama
Our Rama...
Our Giver...
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